Talk:Super Smash Bros.
Third party Can sega capcom n namco be added as categories m8? Oh n squar enix Niceperson (talk) 23:14, January 19, 2016 (UTC) :No, the categories are only for the owner of the series. The 3rd party companies only allowed for their characters to appear, but the SSB series is 100% owned by Nintendo.--Kombatgod (talk) 19:14, January 20, 2016 (UTC) By da way wanna edit da ssb x pages Niceperson (talk) 19:20, January 20, 2016 (UTC) :What do you say???-- [[User talk:CavaX|'CavaX™']] 13:58, December 1, 2016 (UTC) Trophies I've been working on the list of trophies in the games and it's driving me insane because of what trophies should count as what series... so I thought I'd write some points here. I think the problem is mainly the Mario series, because that's the one with most spinoffs, but there might be other series with some oddities, so I wanted to write down some general rules. Of course the detailed link pages (X pages) are for listing references between two specific series, so when it comes to Super Smash Bros. it mostly means that for each series we should list all elements from that series, and only those from that series. So for example we don't have any business talking about the Luigi's Mansion stage in the Mario X Super Smash Bros. page, because we consider Luigi's Mansion a series separate from Mario, but on the other hand we should talk about the Yoshi's Island stage because it originates from Super Mario World, despite being listed as Yoshi series in the game. I still stand by it, but when it comes to series with many elements in the game (for instance the Mario series) I think it may be better to have the list at the beginning match the official one for quick reference to readers and then mention oddities in the sections. (and also in brackets in the list at the beginning if they're big enough oddities) When it comes to trophies the situation is trickier because they can be many dozens and there can be trophies from crossovers that are only listed in one series, or trophies that mention elements from other series or other things. So I'm thinking the trophy lists should be implemented this way: *The list should include all the trophies that are officially listed for that series and no trophies listed from other series. This way the readers can look at the section and find the official list right away. While this apparently goes against the concept of "X pages", I think saying what the creators decide to include to represent the series is still a valuable info. *Trophies that are included in the list, but we consider them from another series (eg Luigi's Mansion trophies in the Mario list) should be indicated in the list. I'm thinking the row in the table should be a different color, maybe a light red or a dark grey. This way we show what trophies we consider "intruders" in the list. *Trophies that are listed in another series, but actually originate from the series we're writing about, or include references to it in the text or the listed games, should go in the "Other references" category. *Both the "intruders" as well as the trophies in the "Other references" category should get a mention in the Trophy section, before the actual list, to let readers know the oddities right away. These are the general rules I've been considering. There are some other notes I need to do for game-specific trophies, because of how the trophy system is implemented in each specific entry: *''Melee'': this game introduced trophies, but (I'm pretty sure) they weren't officially categorized, and instead are shown in one specific order: playable characters, boss characters, items (last item being the Poké Ball), Poké Ball Pokémon, Character items, Kirby Transformations, stage elements, enemies, series related elements, elements from unrepresented series. So each trophy is not explicitly stated to belong to any series or category, but is instead implied to belong to one series and one category based on the order. Since there really is no official categorization (and therefore no official number of trophies for each series), I think we can freely treat oddities in the list itself, unless they're too evident. *''Brawl'': when I first made lists for this game I didn't know there were official categories for trophies and instead basically made my own, thinking they were only implied like in Melee. While my categories can be more detailed (for example I divided series related trophies from the Zelda series between Twilight Princess charcters and Wind Waker characters), I don't think they're much more useful than official ones so I'm thinking it may be best to put the official categories in. This game also introduced Stickers, but as far as I know they aren't divided in any category, nor are indicated as belonging to any series, only listing a specific game of origin, so for those, since there isn't an official number, we can freely follow our personal classification, including each sticker based on what series its game belongs to. *''Smash 4'': I'm still not sure about the interactions between the two versions. I had fun thinking about the trophy list as if one could want to collect trophies across both versions, indicating when each trophy appears in either game or both, and I listed them trying to overlap both lists, keeping the order of trophies for either version the same... but that's actually impossible, because of the two versions putting the same trophy in different categories (most notably Smash Run enemies from the 3DS version are series related trophies in the Wii U) meaning that the order of two trophies can be swapped across two versions. So far I've given priority to the version that lists them as represented in the game, so if either version lists a trophy as an enemy then it's an enemy, even if the other version lists it as "series related". Same goes for stage elements. I'm thinking it may be better to have the category in a column, this way we can include both, but I don't feel like changing the lists right now, and also the category is not really interesting info, when it comes to cross series references, it's more like a harmless consequence of what elements they included in the game... So I'm thinking it may be ok to leave things as they are. Again, these rules are made for series that have dozens of trophies. Series with only a handful can be treated differently, since I think readers are okay with finding info like "there are 4 trophies, plus an extra one if you wanna count it" and less okay with something like "there are 135/136 trophies in the game, or maybe 125, or maybe any number between 142 and 146." TL;DR: The points in this post indicate what I think should be the rules for including or excluding trophies in each series' list. If you have any trouble with deciding what series any trophy belongs to, use these as reference (though they are still open for debate) I think that's it. Let me know if you agree/disagree/are indifferent to any of this.--Kombatgod (talk) 11:39, August 29, 2018 (UTC) Shouldn’t DK trophies referencing Mario be in “Other references” for Mario X Super Smash Bros.? Also maybe we shouldn’t worry too much of ordering in different games (3DS/Wii U). This is the Crossover Wiki, not the Smash Wiki. -Oishi :You're right. Ordering is not that important. Yeah, if you agree with these points I'll start moving trophies around.--Kombatgod (talk) 21:05, August 29, 2018 (UTC) ::I know I'm making a big fuss over nothing, but while making the table for Pokémon trophies in Brawl I just remembered why I made up trophy categories in the first place: to point out which trophies are based on elements that are otherwise not in the game. It's technically unnoticeable to point out trophies based on characters that are already in the game, if it wasn't for references in the description. For this reason I wanted to point out with my made up categories: "hey guys trophies from this point on are especially noticeable!" In Brawl the categories are all mixed up, so it's kinda needed to make up our own, and that's what I'm doing for Brawl Pokémon, since the unrepresented ones are sorted in the middle of series related, between Poké Ball and Stage Pokémon. That's also why I'm giving priority to trophies being classified as enemies or stage elements when they appear in both Smash for 3DS and Wii U as different categories. I know nobody but my OCD cares.--Kombatgod (talk) 15:48, December 12, 2018 (UTC) ::Well actually I noticed it does separate the Pokémon in a different way when sorting them by type. Whatever.--Kombatgod (talk) 15:59, December 12, 2018 (UTC) :::About Smash 4 trophies, so far I followed Smash Wiki and Super Mario Wiki in including both NTSC and PAL descriptions... but on second thought that's useless. The two are only slightly different, because they're both translations of the original Japanese trophies, so it's not like they include different info, they're just alternate ways of saying the same thing, and are both trying to stay as true as possible to the original while both being somewhat inaccurate due to the different language, just like any translation in any other language is. Not to mention, the reason to have the description of each trophy in this Wiki is to point out the references to the original games included in them, so only one of them is enough. For this reason starting with the Pokémon trophies I'll only include the NTSC description. I won't go through the trouble of removing the PAL descriptions in trophy lists that already include them though, since that's just harmless, albeit useless, extra information. As always I'm open to feedback.--Kombatgod (talk) 14:32, December 13, 2018 (UTC) “See details” How come it’s taking so long for “see details” to arrive on certain link pages. Megamangohan created a Mega Man X Super Smash Bros. and I renamed it to fit in both pages of Mega Man and Super Smash Bros, but it doesn’t show up. What’s taking so long? -Oishi :Lol it's not taking it long, they just DON'T show up. To make a long story short (a very long story) the function that automatically puts links is limited to 99 calls, so they don't show up beyond that number. So when a series has so many links that they stop showing up we basically have to put the link manually, by replacing the "L" template with "L1" if you only want to link the series, "L2" if you only want the "see details" link, or "LX" if you want both. I'll add the links.--Kombatgod (talk) 21:27, August 29, 2018 (UTC) Kid Icarus Why does Kid Icarus have an “inout” link to Smash? -Oishi :It may be a mistake, but it may be because Pit appeared in Kid Icarus: Uprising with his appearance from Smash. I believe that should actually only be type 3 unless there are elements like specific weapons from the game, or if they mention Pit's appearance in Smash as really happening... I don't think that's the case, but at least at one point they do mention "Super Smash Bros." although that's in reference to game controls, so it may only be type 2. :So yeah, unless there's a type 1 reference in Uprising the arrow should only be toward smash.--Kombatgod (talk) 01:09, August 30, 2018 (UTC) Spirits Maybe we should have a rule involving Spirits to avoid confusion with Type 1 and Type 2 links. -Oishi I'll add spirits to the note.--Kombatgod (talk) 16:59, November 25, 2018 (UTC) I’m also wondering if we should reference how different spirit battles reference the specific spirits. -Oishi I'm thinking yeah. That's often a specific reference to some of the character's traits and is also a fun detail.--Kombatgod (talk) 01:07, December 7, 2018 (UTC) It should be detailed as to how it tries to reference. -Oishi Spirits table Ok I made a couple of tries for a table in the Pokémon X Super Smash Bros. page. I don't know if it's better the way I left it now or if it was better before... I'm open to suggestions. But I wanted to make clear the purpose of this work, that's why I also made the page Shantae X Super Smash Bros. as an example of the informations I'd like to have about spirits. Basically each spirit should indicate info about it as an accessory and also about the fight, explaining how that fight and the spirit itself reference the character and their series. Then for series with dozens of spirits you can't do that so the table is basically a way to summarize informations, so that's why I was struggling to create something that works. It's also ok to have like a hyerarchy of references: if a series is already linked to Smash by having like a character or a stage, there's no need to go into too much detail for the spirit, because it's not really important to prove a connection between Smash and that series through the spirit when we already showed the character or stage or whatever.--Kombatgod (talk) 23:40, December 19, 2018 (UTC)